Vermont Senate Votes Down Ed Secretary Nominee Zoie Saunders | Education | Seven Days | Vermont's Independent Voice

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Vermont Senate Votes Down Ed Secretary Nominee Zoie Saunders

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Published April 30, 2024 at 10:51 a.m.


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Updated at 1:59 p.m.

In a rare development, the Vermont Senate on Tuesday morning voted down Zoie Saunders, Gov. Phil Scott's nominee for education secretary.

The 9-19 tally came after several senators gave impassioned speeches about why they'd vote against Saunders, a Florida school administrator who has spent the bulk of her career working for a privately held, for-profit charter school management company. Many lawmakers noted the unprecedented amount of calls, emails and text messages they'd received from constituents urging them to reject the nominee.

Immediately following the vote, Scott announced in a statement that he had named Saunders the interim secretary of education, effectively installing her to the position indefinitely. The governor also attached a "100 Day Plan" that she intends to implement, laying out strategy for helming the department.



“I’m confident she is the leader we need as we move forward," Scott wrote. "In her short time at the Agency, she has identified challenges, which she is already addressing, including mobilizing support to help stabilize operations in the field in collaboration with education leaders."

Scott had announced Saunders' appointment in March, and she'd started on the job on April 15. Confirmation hearings in the Vermont Statehouse are typically pro forma events, but there were early indications that Saunders' would be a little more complicated.

Almost immediately after Saunders was appointed, residents, lawmakers, the state teachers' union, the Vermont Principals' and School Boards associations, and even the Democratic and Progressive parties all raised concerns about Saunders' qualifications for the $168,000-a-year leadership position.
Sen. Becca White (D-Windsor) before voting no - KEVIN MCCALLUM ©️ SEVEN DAYS
  • Kevin McCallum ©️ Seven Days
  • Sen. Becca White (D-Windsor) before voting no
She has never worked as a teacher, principal or superintendent and had held her most recent job, as chief strategy and innovation officer in Broward County Public Schools, for just three months.

Saunders' critics zeroed in on her seven-year stint as a strategist for Charter Schools USA. They noted that charter schools, which are not currently allowed in Vermont, circumvent public oversight.
On the Senate floor ahead of Tueday's vote, senators described the barrage of constituent messages they received and how they influenced their thinking on Saunders.

Sen. Ann Cummings (D-Washington), who said she was reluctantly voting no for Saunders, said she had never seen the kind of “intense, well-organized lobbying effort” as she had in response to Saunders’ nomination.

“That kind of intensity makes it very difficult to make an impartial decision,” she said, noting that some of the messages appeared to be form letters.

But Sen. Ruth Hardy (D-Addison) said she thought that what she heard from her constituents “was incredibly authentic and personal and not toxic at all. People were speaking from the heart. People were speaking out of the love of their public schools, out of the love of their communities.”

Hardy also noted that when she interviewed Saunders, the nominee was not able to explain the state’s school finance system. Saunders also did not present a strong vision for public education, Hardy said, other than the idea of forming partnerships with entities such as Middlebury College.

“I’m frankly proud of our constituents, proud of the people in Vermont who wrote to us and showed up today who want us to improve schools and do right by public education in Vermont,” Hardy said.

Several senators expressed concern with the reception Saunders had received from Vermonters.

“I am appalled by the way this woman has been treated,” Sen. Terry Williams (R-Rutland) said.

But Nader Hashim (D-Windham) said the last several weeks amounted to “a long and rather awkward” job interview. “Being found underqualified for a job is not a personal attack,” Hashim said.

Members of the Senate Education Committee raised some of those same concerns last week when they peppered Saunders with questions for 90 minutes during a confirmation hearing. After the hearing,
Sen. Martine Gulick (D-Chittenden-Central) said she found Saunders to be well-spoken and intelligent but didn't believe she was up to the job of helming the Agency of Education at a time of crisis.

"I think we need someone who just has more experience working in public education, in schools, [who] understands policy, understands systems, understands public school management to a better degree," said Gulick, a former public school librarian.


The committee ultimately voted 3-2 to send Saunders' nomination to the entire Senate with a favorable recommendation. But early on in the debate Tuesday morning, it was clear a majority of the senators assembled would be voting against Saunders appointment.



Sen. Becca White (D-Windsor), who voted no, said she was “overwhelmed … by emails, phone calls, text messages, being stopped at the co-op … and they were all individuals who had trepidation and skepticism … not because of the state that the secretary nominee is from, but because of her résumé.”

Sen. Brian Campion (D-Bennington) chairs the Education Committee and had voted in favor of Saunders last week, and again on Tuesday.

“I hate sharing my feelings, but today I am genuinely sad,” Campion said. “This has been an incredibly contentious few weeks … and personally I have never witnessed, in my 14 years in the building, character attacks toward what I consider a very, very good person.”

Campion said he believed Saunders was an “exceptional candidate” with “vast experience, remarkable intellect and deep dedication for expanding opportunities.”

In an interview following the vote, Vermont-NEA communications director Darren Allen said his organization was grateful to the senators and thousands of Vermonters who stood up for public education. Allen said he saw the governor’s reappointment of Saunders as a sign of disrespect for the legislature.

Though it’s unclear what comes next, Allen said the Vermont-NEA will continue to work with the “dedicated staff” of the Agency of Education, who he believes need more resources and staff to effectively do their work.

Despite the rejection, Saunders, for the time being, isn't going anywhere. She'll serve as interim secretary and can do so through February 2025, when all gubernatorial appointees are up for reappointment, Scott spokesperson Jason Maulucci said after the vote.

Interim appointees are not subject to legislative confirmation.

Scott could also wait until after the Senate adjourns for the year and appoint her to the permanent job, something Maulucci said Scott is considering. The law states that if a person is appointed when the legislature is not in session, that person “may validly function in that office during adjournment until the Senate convenes at the next regular, adjourned, or special session.”

If Scott did that, it could deprive the Senate of a second opportunity to vote down her appointment. The permanent appointment would also only last until February 2025, setting Saunders up for another bruising appointment fight next year.

"We think she's the right person for the job," Maulucci told Seven Days.

Maulucci said the governor believes the process was flawed, pointing to what he called misinformation circulated by Lt. Gov. David Zuckerman. Over the weekend, a fundraising email sent from Zuckerman's campaign said that during Saunders' time working for Charter Schools USA, she "received an award from Florida Governor Ron DeSantis who has subjected Florida’s public schools to the right-wing movement to ban books and censor teachers’ ability to teach factual American history on race and sexuality."

In an interview on Monday, Zuckerman acknowledged that he erroneously stated it was DeSantis who gave the award and that Saunders was a "charter school executive" at the time.

Saunders' résumé states that she "spearheaded innovative education programs that earned the city of Fort Lauderdale recognition as a recipient of the Florida Department of Education’s Commissioner’s Business Recognition Award."

“There can be political missteps, and maybe I made one here,” Zuckerman said.
In an email reply to Zuckerman, Saunders pointed out that she had never met DeSantis. Nor, she said, is she complicit in book-banning controversies there; she said Zuckerman had falsely cast her work as being part of "the culture wars."

Because of that email, Gov. Scott had sent Senate leadership a letter on Monday urging a postponement of the vote on Saunders' confirmation.

“After all, this is a human we are talking about, not just a policy disagreement on a bill,” Scott wrote in the letter.

After Tuesday's vote, Zuckerman, who presides over the Senate, apologized to both Saunders and senators for writing something that was “factually inaccurate" and adding heat to the debate.

Kevin McCallum contributed reporting.

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